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Need control circle radius bigger in 10000

Posted by David Bengtsson 
In Sweden the control radius in 15000 must be 3 mm. But for 10000 (and greater) it must be 25-50% bigger than 3mm. It's the same for start, finish, lines and so on, 25-50% bigger.

Is there a way for Condes to adjust this automatically? I'm using a ocad map with scale 15000 and printing scale 10000.
Finn Arildsen
Re: Need control circle radius bigger in 10000
August 16, 2008 12:42PM
Hi David

The Condes standard diameter is according to the IOF norm, ie. 6 mm. However, if you want to increase the diameter, you can use the menu Canvas / Circle and Line Dimensions. This opens a dialog window where you can configure different dimensions, both the diameter and the line width.

You would have to do this every time you create a new event.

Would you like to see an option in Condes to let this happen automatically? I'm not sure how this would work, so your input would be appreciated :-)


If you have to use two map scales at the same event, read on...

The best way to handle printout at different scales from the same map is to use two canvases. You designate one canvas to 1:10,000 and another to 1:15,000. You can use the same map file for both canvases (they can be linked) or you can use separate map files. The controls will be the same, but you can set the circle and line dimensions separately on each canvas.

Switch between canvases with the drop down list "Canvas" at the top left corner of the Course Layout Editor. Use the menu Canvas / Map to control which map to show on the currently selected canvas.

If you have ONE map file, and you already have this map file linked to Canvas 1, then do as follows:
1) switch to Canvas 2.
2) use menu Canvas / Map to link Canvas 2 to the map on Canvas 1. Also, set the printout scale for Canvas 2) here.
3) use menu Canvas / Circle and Line Dimensions for each canvas to adjust the circle diameter as appropriate.


Best regards,
Finn
Anonymous User
Re: Need control circle radius bigger in 10000
November 11, 2009 10:52PM
Finn,

Are you planning to add the possibility to make control circles bigger automatically as discussed above?

The rules for major events in the UK are:
"The map scale for age classes M/W18 to M/W40 shall be 1:15,000.
"The map scale for age classes M/W45 and above, and for age classes M/W16 and below, shall be 1:10,000, drawn with lines, line screens and symbol dimensions 50% greater than those used for 1:15,000 maps."

It would be very helpful if you could make this possible simply.

I am trying to follow the instructions in your previous reply and I have a problem. I have two canvasses, one at 1:15000, the other at 1:10000. I want to set some courses to one canvas, the others to the other. But when I switch canvasses all the courses switch to the new canvas.
Finn Arildsen
Re: Need control circle radius bigger in 10000
November 11, 2009 11:21PM
Hi Peter,

Everything is simple when you know how to do it. :-) The canvas concept is indeed very flexible, and not very complicated.

There is some inspiration in the "sample event.wcd" file that installs with Condes. The sample event has 3 active canvases, each with a different layout and different scale.

In your case, you would use one canvas for 1:15,000 and another for 1:10,000

A course is not associated with a specific canvas, so you should be able to see each course on either of the canvases, and use the courses at both scales as needed.

When you print, using the Print / Maps with courses menu, be sure to select the appropriate canvas for a given course. I.e. select canvas 1 for the 1:15,000 courses, and canvas 2 for the 1:10,000 courses (or whatever scale you have selected for each canvas).

A future new feature could be to make it possible to associate a course with a specific canvas, so that you can tie the course to a scale, or use different canvases for different days in a multi day event on the same map.

Does this make sense?

Finn
Anonymous User
Re: Need control circle radius bigger in 10000
November 12, 2009 11:15AM
OK, thanks for the clarification.

I would like to make two new feature suggestions. From David Bengtsson's post it looks like Sweden and Britain have the same problem.

It would be good if it were possible to specify
(a) that circles and lines are scaled up by option when selecting two canvasses at different scales on the same map
(b) that is is possible to allocate a canvas to a course, so that all required information is contained in the Condes file when passing it to a different person to print.

The second requirement is because in many clubs one person keeps the club laser printer and prints all maps.

Peter
Yeah, in Finland local orienteering federation has decided already many years ago, that in 1:15000 is radius 3mm, but in 1:10000 "only" 3,75mm (and all other symbols same way...)
Finn Arildsen
Re: Need control circle radius bigger in 10000
May 08, 2010 11:57AM
I have certainly noted the interest in having a way to scale circles and line widths proportional to the map scale. However, the above postings also clearly indicate that there are differences in how this is handled in different countries, so a flexible solution is necessary.

This is on the wish list.

Best regards,
Finn
Just to clarify something Peter suggested in this thread from the UK major event rules:

----
The rules for major events in the UK are:
"The map scale for age classes M/W18 to M/W40 shall be 1:15,000.
"The map scale for age classes M/W45 and above, and for age classes M/W16 and
below, shall be 1:10,000, drawn with lines, line screens and symbol dimensions
50% greater than those used for 1:15,000 maps."
----

My understanding of the latter of these is that the map itself gets blown up, but the overprint should stay the same unless the situation stated in the IOF rules comes into play:

---
The size of overprinting symbols is given for 1:15 000 maps. The size of these
symbols for 1:10 000 maps should be the same as for 1:15 000 maps. However, for
multi-age competitions in which both 1:10 000 and 1:15 000 maps are used,
the size of the symbols on the 1:10 000 maps may be 150% greater than on
the 1:15 000 maps
----

So for an event with only 1:10,000 (UK middle distance champs perhaps) UK should always use 6mm circles. Only if the same course was being used for different classes where one had to use 1:15,000 and the other 1,10,000 (something like M45 and M17 I guess at a major event) would you be allowed to blow up to 9mm - this would be so that the same control descriptions could be used for both.

JK
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